Altitude Limited Electric Soaring

[johnnyc]

Dear Members:
It has been a very long time since we have had a club electric contest. Apparently, there was a lack of interest noted sometime in 2009 and the competition was discontinued. You may remember that the format was designed so that it was a fair as possible taking into consideration various motor configurations. The format worked, I thought, and was the best we could do at the time. However, we now have ALES (Altitude Limited Electric Soaring) with the advent of new, lightweight, easy to use altitude/timing limiter devices. Because of a discussion at the last meeting I volunteered to research this topic; and I should have two such devices at the next meeting. While the cost might be a factor for some, there is a substantial discount available if we were to purchase a certain quantity.

I will explain this at the meeting as well as current accepted contest formats, use of limiter devices and how the club can possibly have loaner units.

For now the question is:
Do you have any interest in revisiting the club electric contests if the playing field was made more fair with everyone limited to the same starting altitude?

Please respond so I can have an idea as to whether this is something I should continue to investigate.

Thank you,

[spock]

I guess, for me, my answer would depend a great deal on the price of the limiter, since it might be an infrequent use device. I'll see the presentation at the next meeting.

A. Cross-Hansen

[whatgoesup]

Is the contest a club only contest or will it be open to others?

What is the minimum number of people in a contest?

How often will the ALES contests be held?

What type of tasks are in the contest?

What type of landings are required in the contest?

Do we have to take the ALES device out of the model for normal (non-contest) flying?

Do we all have to buy the exact same ALES device?

[johnnyc]

Feb 5, 2011 21:30:49 GMT -5 spock said:

I guess, for me, my answer would depend a great deal on the price of the limiter, since it might be an infrequent use device. I'll see the presentation at the next meeting.

A. Cross-Hansen

The cost for one of the units is $49.00 plus $5.00 shipping so it's going to be $54.00 total for one unit. We can get 10% off if we buy 5-9 units and 20% off if we buy 10 or more. This was a quote from one manufacturer. Another said there would be a discount but did not quote exact numbers. Considering I already purchased one it counts towards the total from the guy who made the above quote. The shipping gets really cheap because you can send many units for one low fee. As for infrequent use... If you intend to fly an electric contest anywhere it looks like all will go to limited altitude format eventually! I hope this helps... John

[johnnyc]

Feb 5, 2011 23:54:58 GMT -5 whatgoesup said:

Is the contest a club only contest or will it be open to others?

What is the minimum number of people in a contest?

How often will the ALES contests be held?

What type of tasks are in the contest?

What type of landings are required in the contest?

Do we have to take the ALES device out of the model for normal (non-contest) flying?

Do we all have to buy the exact same ALES device?

I wanted to get a general answer about interest but I will address your questions in a limited way, for now, to give you and others an idea of what the current thinking is.

What is the minimum number of people in a contest?

This is to be determined but you need at least 2... one timer and one flyer. For the club we can decide what works. Naturally other clubs will have their own rules. On a national basis I think there will be enough interest not to worry about numbers.

How often will the ALES contests be held?

Once again, this will be determined by the club and interested flyers. My guess would be monthly as a local thing.

What type of tasks are in the contest?

The current thinking is 10 minutes from the launch. This is a little complicated and I will explain more at the meeting. You will land in a 10 ft circle for landing points based on distance from the center. Flying points start at a maximum of 600. Deduct 1 point for seconds over or under ten min.

What type of landings are required in the contest?

As stated above... there can be a NO LAND area depending on the site and current conditions. Your plane must be able to fly again after landing.

Do we have to take the ALES device out of the model for normal (non-contest) flying?

No, but naturally you will always be limited to the preset altitude or 30 seconds of motor run time. 'Normal' flights with unlimited climb under power would require you to simply unplug the unit from the receiver and re-plug in your motor direct as usual. There is no 'bypass' circuit at this time.

Do we all have to buy the exact same ALES device?

There are at least two manufacturers who have approved units and, as I understand it, you can use either in a contest.

Thanks, John

[Ed Anderson]

I am glad you are taking leadership here.

Count me in.

As noted in my letter in the club newsletter, I think we can get a pack of 10 devices and all the needed stuff to put on our first contest to see if we like it. Naturally I have to return the package after the contes.

But I am prepared to buy a limiter, so no problem with that.

As for opening it up outside the club. I think that would be fun, but we have to be sure we don't violate any County rules about that. But a few guests would probably be OK.

Here is a link to a HUGE discussion on ALES contests.
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330889

[johnnyc]

Hey, I received the 'Soaring Circuits' ALES unit today. It is so lightweight that I didn't think there was anything in the box. Hopefully, I will be able to post some more information and photos soon...

John

[whatgoesup]

I got my CAM at the March meeting, but I missed the February meeting while on vacation, so I'm looking to see what my next step towards the ALES contest is.

Also, I doubt my one year old stock Radian can do 200 meters in 30 seconds (tired batteries and marginal performance, for this sort of thing, to start with). Are we going to 200 meters in the contest or lower? Can you tell me what types of planes the guys in the contest will be flying? I'd like to know what the competition is. Depending on what your answers are, I may need to modify my Radian to climb quicker (different prop; new, bigger battery; though this seems to go against the reason for an ALES contest).

Here's an interesting post on an ALES thread that goes into enhancing the Radian Pro's climbing ability for ALES contests. It would work for a standard Radian, too, since they have the same motor and ESC: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17747993&postcount=869 For anyone interested, click on the link in the upper right corner of the post to go to the thread.

[whatgoesup]

Is anyone doing anything with their ALES devices: installing, testing, flying, landing in the woods?. It's only been a month since the last post here. I hope there's still some interest

I installed my ALES in a stock Radian with a tired battery and and old motor. It was easy to program to trip at 150 meters. I've only been able to test it by turning the motor on very lightly and timing how long it takes to cut off. It successfully cuts off at 30 seconds. I'm ready to fly it and to see how well it works for me. When I do I'll post here and let you guys know how it went. I'm also curious how it works for you and what plane you're flying it in.

Looking forward to the first ALES contest.

[whatgoesup]

Yeah! Good flying weather's here. It's hard to believe it's taken until into May for it to arrive.

I maidened my Radian with the ALES yesterday. I didn't get to use it very much, so all I can say is that it shut the motor down at 30 seconds or 150 meters, whichever came first; they were close together. Also, I'm just using my eyes to judge altitude, so this test wasn't very scientific. I was able to restart my motor after flying for awhile. I need more time with it to really get acquainted and I had more fun things to do at the field than fuss with it. It would be nice if I could launch the same time as someone else with ALES, in a Radian for preference, and see how alike they act.

When's the contest date?

[Ed Anderson]

I received this today and wanted to pass it on:

Polecat/Soaring Circuits ALES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ed,

Next weekend is our ALES contest in Carlisle, PA. I was wondering if you could post a message on the LISF forum that there are still a few days left to register. 2 days of electric soaring with lunch both days and a Saturday night BBQ at the field included.

I know you guys have some CAM limiters in your club and this is a great way to wring them out! With 26 registered pilots so far, this should be the largest electric soaring event ever. Hope you and your club mates can join us.

Thanks,
Randy
Soaring Circuits

The contest is discussed here:
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1394711&highlight=ales

Registration information is in the thread.

[whatgoesup]

Hi, I'm Trevor, a.k.a. whatgoesup in this forum and powerbud in RCGroups forums.

About a month ago, I created an ALES Build thread for LISF in RCGroups. Since then I've gradually been adding a lot information to it for getting those tired old Radians, that have been sitting around, back into shape for the flying season. I also documented the changes/modifications I'm making to my own Radian, so it will be able to climb to 200 meters in 30 seconds for our club ALES contests.

The ALES Build thread is for all types of ALES sailplanes and not just Radians! However, I think most of the entries in our ALES contests will be Radians to start with, so I devoted my initial input to them. The intent is to get as many club members with Radians into the air and into the ALES contests as possible.

Go to the ALES build thread and check it out. Post your questions, answers and comments there. If you are building or modifying an ALES sailplane, show your progress with lots and lots of pictures. If you can't post pictures, just tell us what you're doing. We need your input to keep interest up.

ALES Build thread: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1553527

See you there.

Trevor

[whatgoesup]

The LISF ALES build thread will change as time goes on. Expect to see more input. Pete Nicholson plans to re-engine his two meter Gnome. The Gnome is a fairly old woodie. Alan Cross-Hansen is building a Chysalis E from a kit: also a two meter woodie. Both sailplanes are designed for relatively heavy equipment by today's standards. It will be interesting to see how Pete and Alan manage using lighter motors and batteries than the models were designed for. Anyway, there's life in those old woodies. So if you don't have a Radian, you may not have to look far to find a suitable model and get ideas on how to set it up for ALES.

Alan Cross-Hansen has volunteered to be our ALES build leader and to research and recommend components to modify Radians to be able to do 200 meters in 30 seconds. So we have a go-to person for the club's general ALES building and Radian modifications.

John Caramanga and Ed Anderson are co-contest directors for ALES contests in our club. Together they are working on ironing out the club's ALES issues. So we have go-to people for the club's ALES contests, too.

Regards,

Trevor

[Ed Anderson]

LISF now runs an ALES contest the 4th Saturday for LISF members. If you would enjoy this kind of soaring contest, consider coming down to watch. If you like what you see, consider joining the club. We have a lot of fun.

The next contets is in April, 2013